Right. That's because Bethel demands that it be done that way. Most folks aren't aware and at the very least, its misleading. No, take that back, its dishonest and greedy.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
-
29
Voting with their wallet
by SirNose586 inwhen i came here in may, i began to see phrases like "voting with their wallets" or "voting with their feet" in regards to declining contributions and declining attendance figures.
i think i am seeing the former in action..... last sunday i went to the local ca.
at the half they read the accounts report--aka, cough up that dough report--and there was a "$4,000 deficit.
-
-
-
29
Voting with their wallet
by SirNose586 inwhen i came here in may, i began to see phrases like "voting with their wallets" or "voting with their feet" in regards to declining contributions and declining attendance figures.
i think i am seeing the former in action..... last sunday i went to the local ca.
at the half they read the accounts report--aka, cough up that dough report--and there was a "$4,000 deficit.
-
-
Doubting Bro
OTWO,
I know many brothers will break up an expense into several $400 projects that never need to get voted on.
Yeah, I've seen that suggested a few times. However, 5 of the 7 elders pitched a fit at the suggestion and the idea was never mentioned again. I was shocked that someone would even suggest such a dishonest approach. And another straw was added to the camel's back.
-
29
Voting with their wallet
by SirNose586 inwhen i came here in may, i began to see phrases like "voting with their wallets" or "voting with their feet" in regards to declining contributions and declining attendance figures.
i think i am seeing the former in action..... last sunday i went to the local ca.
at the half they read the accounts report--aka, cough up that dough report--and there was a "$4,000 deficit.
-
-
Doubting Bro
A couple of comments on this subject:
1) On a local level, contributions vary widely among congregations. I've notice that in some of the less wealth congregations, the contributions were higher than in at least one affluent congregations that I was in. I stopped contributing (other than a nominal amount towards local needs - lights, etc) a couple of years ago when I found out about some of the sexual abuse suits and the legal fees expended as well as the UN association. I also figured that distributing their literature for free and driving all over God's creation giving public talks was more than enough.
2) On a circuit level, you're right about the R&F not voting on anything financial. There is always a "business meeting" held by the elders (that bother showing up, probably about half where I am) in which the CO/DO/Bethel speaker expenses, and the CO apartment expenses are approved and the contribution to the WWW is also approved. What is interesting to me is that our circuit had decided that we would send the majority of any surplus to the Society. Well, that wasn't good enough. They wanted a set amount each time, even if it meant going into the circuit surplus to cough it up. Of course, that amount is added to the "deficit" and it usually gets taken care of.
By the way, those assembly halls generally cost more to "rent" than does a commerical building.
What I find even more interesting is that on a local basis, many congregations pass a resolution that the body can spend say 100-200 without a vote to handle misc things that come up, but anything more has to be voted on. I know bodies I've served with in the past have been pretty frugal with the congo money. Yet, in the circuit, the individual members NEVER vote on financial matters. That authority is completely ceeded to the elders.
-
30
jehovahsjudgement. UN - NGO apologist site.
by bigmouth inanyone seen this site and marvelled at the ignorance and credulity of the anonymous writer.
read the condescending letter on the last page.
we can come back to the borg.
-
-
Doubting Bro
OTWO,
I totally agree. I've read this site and it never addresses that fundamental issue. It's just a bunch of spin.
Truth doesn't need spin. Humility doesn't need spin. If you're humble and you make a mistake, admit it, apologize sincerely and move on. The reason why folks are being df'ed over this issue is because the WTS knows that if it becomes common knowledge among the flock, they will lose many members and much money.
It isn't the association with the UN that really bothered me. It's the cover-up that shows me they don't have Jehovah's blessing or spirit.
-
46
Encouragement for Codeblue
by bebu inhey everyone,.
codeblue is needing some major cheering up.
she's been hit very hard by some very difficult news recently, and i know it's been very hard for her these days.
-
-
Doubting Bro
(((((Codeblue)))),
Sorry you're going through a rough time. As hard as it may be, try to focus on something positive. Things have a way of working themselves out. In the meantime, my prayers are with you.
-
356
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 ini'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).
and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.
people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!
-
-
Doubting Bro
This has taken some interesting turns since I last checked in.
I know there are some that feel folks in my position are cowards for not speaking what we believe the truth to be. Maybe your right. For me personally, being a JW is the only thing I know. To wake up suddenly one day and completly change your belief system is quite difficult. I am angry with the WTS for associating with the UN, for putting out false prophesy, for the all the people that were hurt for the blood policy, etc. I'm disappointed about the lack of love, about the Pharisee mentality. But, the thought that it is somehow still God's organization has been pounded into my head for so long, its tough to shake. Mentally, I can see it but emotionally it still tugs at me.
The last thing I think I can do is go off half cocked. I strongly disagree with the disfellowshiping policy but understand if I were to take the suggestion of using one of my meeting parts as a tirade, that's where I would be. Cut off from family and friends. I understand that still is likely to occur but I need time to formulate a plan and prepare myself to deal with the consequences. Is that selfish? Yes to a degree. But what about my wife? Don't I owe her something? How would my giving a farewell speech help her?
Also, the fact is that NO ONE will listen to me if I do that. I will be dismissed as being mentally distrubed. They will shut me down as soon as I talk. I just don't see how that action would be very loving to anyone. Auld Soul mentioned how he got out 7 people. Do you think it was by being confrontational? I think that has its place but more in line with preventing people from being JWs not convincing JWs to leave.
Right now, I can gently point people in the right direction. I just have to be very careful. I am sure that I will not remain an elder for much longer but I'm very cautious by nature. Remember, I'm the one who has to live with the decision. Arthur made a good point when he said that we have to take care of our family first and foremost. My entire life has already changed. I'm beyond the point of no return and have no confidence in my future.
I understand the anger. And I'm not looking for anyone to feel sorry for me. Being a JW elder is not up the food chain very far from Joe Publisher. It seems Bethel holds us all in derision.
Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome and I appreciate all the PMs. Because of the kindness shown to me, I am convinced that the WTS is way out of bounds when it comes to the way those who leave are treated. I think you've shown more Christ-like love and compassion to me than I've experienced elsewhere. I hope one day that I can repay that kindness.
-
22
Active JWs: lurkers and posters, is your religion ritualistic?
by AuldSoul inwatchtower october 1, 1998, p. 14, par.
2. the coldhearted attitude of the pharisees constituted a crime against humanity and a sin against god.
(john 9:39-41) with good reason, jesus warned his disciples, "watch out for the leaven" of this elitist group and other religionists, such as the sadducees.
-
-
Doubting Bro
Everything JWs do is a ritual. The 2 CO visits each year (same bs goes on at each one), 1 SAD, 1 CA (fill in the blank parts), service is a huge ritual ( insert problem to talk about, offer WT. Spend 1 hr (ish) door to door and then 1 hour on RVs (drive as much as possible and of course get some coffee to pad the time). As mentioned, all the meetings, talks, memorial.
I think people find some comfort from ritual. The problem is that they think they really are serving Jehovah by doing all these things. Yet, in the same breath, the Pharisees are condemned for putting their rituals above all else. But, that's exactly what I did. Sigh, how dumb is that?
-
-
-
Doubting Bro
Hey Becca,
I'm still here. Haven't been posting much but still reading.
-
32
Cover Letter and Letter of Disassociation.
by AK - Jeff ini am forced to either accept df'ing without any defense [i clearly have none against charges of apostasy], or to at least 'speak my mind' one last time as i exit, with a hope of perhaps helping others to 'wake up'.. to that end - i have elected to send a letter of da to the elders - but more importantly - a copy of it, with a cover letter, to several families in the congregation.
most of these things never have a positive result, i know.
but at least i have attempted in this way to give a little defense for my position.
-
-
Doubting Bro
Jeff,
A very moving, well thought out and well written letter. I haven't decided what to do (fade or da) but your research and others who have posted similiar letters to this board do a great job of setting forth the issues.
If I were to receive such a letter during my die-hard days, I would have been prompted to research in an effort to "set you straight". Of course, you already are straight and I would probably end up at the stage I'm at right now.
Thank you for posting this! Best wishes to you & your wife.
-
25
Letter to Elders/Family
by JimWood ini know a lot of this has already been hashed out before, but for my own personal mental health i feel compelled to post this stuff.
who knows maybe someone out there can use it towards their freedom.
so here is the last letter my wife and i submitted to the elders: .
-
-
Doubting Bro
What a powerful, well researched letter. I wonder what's going throught the elders mind when they receive it? I'm not sure how anyone could truly believe this sort of treatment could be "Christian". So, Thomas can question the resurrected Jesus (in so many words saying he was a fraud), Abraham can question Jehovah over whether it was just to destroy Sodom, yet we can't question a group of uninspired men? This is why I haven't written a letter myself (yet) because I'm not ready to be kicked out at the moment. However, the point about tactic support is well taken and I do feel guilty for continuing part of the org.
Well done! Your courage is an inspiration.